Any players who are worth their weight will have no trouble gaining back their intended rank. Whether this fits as part of MMR or into matchmaking.. Will the rate at which the parameters are relaxed be released in the faq? I know you have a "most hate smite player" rep to live up to, but you really just come off as a sad child. One player an anchor why does whole team get lower MMR not just that player?
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For those extreme scenarios where the matchmaking says "fuck it, we know you're unequal but a match needs to start now" The problem with playing with the same people all the time is simple: They can be in Gold 1, but still have MMR. If others too are complaining about not being put with equally skilled teammates, MAYBE the machmaking is shit? Thanks for taking the time to check this FAQ out!
And yours are bad. Elo was never quite right as a term to use, as this would indicate our system uses the Elo system, which it doesn't. MMR is a better term. Also how close is the Smite. Guru scoring system to your MMR value?
I always saw competent skill reflected by a high Guru score. I wouldn't have enough data to sate how close Smite. I do notice it correlates decently well from the cases I have looked at, but there have been things off.
It can be a useful number as long as you take it into context. I had played almost games of casual conquest before even trying to play league, so when I did I did extremely well in my qualifiers and got to Plat then played through toward diamond and was satisfied.
In my experience casual queues would often than not offer better matches due to the higher player base, I'm EU btw, and I was wondering if league placement should at least be influenced by your causal MMR, otherwise a few patches later I would have been stuck in Gold and gotten in matches with presumably other Gold players which would be far below my skill level. I know this isn't a frequently occurring scenario so I understand if the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
That isn't what would happen. There's nothing wrong with this but I don't understand why people can't seem to understand this simple concept. Tiers are basically achievements. I understand it, I just don't agree with it. The only reason I play the ranked gametype is because I prefer bans and counterpicking, and that's a problem. I want to climb the ladder man, I want the progress to be measurable, and relatable.
And that's exactly what the tier's are for. It still sounds like you don't understand it. Tiers are there to 'measure your progress' in a palatable way. No they aren't, especially if your qualifiers manage to be accurate. There is no progress to be made in a ranked gametype if you start at the proper rank. In fact, the game will reward you for not playing the game mode again until you are significantly better, due to how variance works.
If the tier has no merit, why would I want to increase it? I promise this is why leagues has such a low population. Also find it strange that the system does not heavily factor in 3 man parties as they make up over half of a team. Because people playing league are doing so in order to have their competitive skills tested, thus the games need to be more competitive.
Will we ever get back the sorting of players in lobby by MMR in ranked again or not? Also, what's the point of even having a tier system if it means literally nothing?
If the game is a blowout, then the players will move out of that tier more quickly, stopping games from constantly being blowouts. Tier placement is basically determined by MMR assuming you have enough games played , thus matchmaking effectively considers tier placement. MMR is also a more accurate form of pairing your match because you aren't always caught up to the tier you're "supposed" to be in yet.
Additionally this has nothing to do with "Elo Hell". Elo Hell is the concept that when your MMR falls so low, you only play with AFKers, trolls, excessive feeders, leavers, paste eaters, etc. Elo Hell does not exist in the sense that if you are truly at a higher skill level than the people you're being paired with, you will climb out eventually. It can take a long time depending on how much better you over people in your games, but there is no case where it is impossible to climb out of with enough games played.
Your initial comment implies that you are below plat, and getting paired with people from plat-masters. While these won't be the most competitive games, they should not happen often. Ive been extremely frustrated with league placing so far. I qualified into Gold V and haven't moved yet.
I know that would imply that I was perfectly placed, but I'm constantly out performing my team in wins AND losses. I dont want to blame teammates for my lack of progression, but Im constantly paired with people I don't believe I should be.
The tier system itself tries to match your MMR range as close as it can, and there are systems in place to make sure this happens. So in your example you would be expected to rank up by just playing, and the tier system will catch you up to where you belong assuming you can maintain a high MMR.
In that process they likely would have left Silver 1 into the golds and be climbing fast at that point. Nothing but wether you won or lost a game is taken into account. There are a few reasons for this but the main one is that is the best metric to catch all play-styles and decisions players make. I understand it's a tough thing to balance.
It ain't perfect, but I understand. Ranked has treated me pretty well and I have been getting to where I need to go, where I feel like I belong, so it doesn't seem too bad in my experience. I realize matchmaking in general is hard to perfect, considering parties etc. You don't want to prevent the masters level player from playing with his silver level friend, but it sure does create some one sided matches sometimes.
That's what really annoys me. If the variance is too high, you have say, a masters level player in hunter role in duo, against the lowest player as hunter and he just feeds him all game and it's gg. Meanwhile, the master level player on the opposite team is facing an above average player and it goes fairly even.
I understand how the system is supposed to work. The problem lies in the philosophy behind it, in that the tier system is not a ladder to be climbed. What becomes the point of tiers when I play against people of similar skill regardless? Where is the progression? When misplaced in a low tier, losing is hell because of the simple "I'm better than this tier and I should be moving up. I've been playing against the same people the entire time, certain people haven't been able to keep up, so they fall behind.
The problem with playing with the same people all the time is simple: People at different skill levels do a variety of different things, that may or may not work, that you don't get to see. Some of my greatest Halo tricks have come from straight newbs.
People who couldn't aim or even move well, doing something weird that threw me completely through a loop. And the same thing happens to my opponents when I do it. I think it would be better to only match people of similar rank and ignore mmr. That way there's progression. If I belong in a higher rank then I'll be winning most of my games and move up fast enough.
And when I rank up I'll feel the difference because I'll be playing with different players. Right now I might have the same experience even as I keep ranking up. Why not just use ranking systems and ignore mmr?
Or why not give us a league tier just based on mmr? If you're just using mmr to rank us anyways then just make our league tiers reflect on that. The current way things work is just silly confusing and doesn't make much sense. That is how matchmaking works right now and that is what i experience every day. Top priority my ass. Hirez's top priorities are skins, chests, pointless events to hide more skins behind paywalls.
Yes, constant premade vs solos are truly the most quality and fair match a player can experience. What a big fucking lie. I've been matched with people who I can tell that they shouldn't be in my game, either because they are 1.
Non-timed queues didn't fix shit, in fact it's MUCH worse than ever! It totally improves my game experience! Interestingly enough a lot of artists are not that great at the intricacies of programming and the difficulties of balancing matchmaking. Creating and improving the logic of a matchmaking system is not a throw people at the problem sort of problem. It takes time and iterations to get it better. Skins, chests and promotional events provide the income to pay for the operation of the game.
Shit like you are talking about happens to everyone but not often, at least not with me. Plus stop looking at other people look at yourself and improve yourself that's the only thing that matters.
Can't agree with this more, I was one of those "blame everybody but yourself people" I still am a little bit when frustrated but i'm trying to fix it but I find when I don't look at what my team is doing, regardless of how they did,and only ask myself "how can I improve?
Oh and also I'm bad player that I buy beads but others don't buy beads against Ares ultimate and they say team sucks. If others too are complaining about not being put with equally skilled teammates, MAYBE the machmaking is shit? And I never said MM had no problem, I even said that everyone has these problems.
How is that not a good player LOL? Do you even know how one person's good score can make the game win? I sometime see bad premades that obviously get rekt early because initially is single or duo player skill, then after mid game when team fight start premades always always win. Havingo curse or teamspeak allows them to destroy even the best solo players.
As someone who's lost 18 matches in a row recently, and looked up most players in the later half of games I played I can tell you, there's wild variation in players grabbed. It's almost the "i dont give a fuck" mmr system.
Want to add to the discussion? Is it just not feasible? Sorry if it's a bit convoluted it's 2am and I keep losing my train of thought!
Is this intentional as I might have a really high casual elo and from being D1 in Leagues? Oh snap, I better qualify before this change ;. Or You can have faster ques with a much less strict system, which many players want. But, what about, Qualifying players will never be matched with a Platinum, Diamond, or Masters player. We are looking at this issue of motivation for masters players. Thanks for correcting me PonPon!
Just keep reminding myself, "Smite is fun" but sometimes I forget why. Ignore the others and play the best you can: Possibly things like going would be a potential flag, ect. Hirez really fucked up with them skins and they deserve all the shut that comes with them.
Shows you how many people are searching for a certain mode. Shows you how many people are online in general. League, we used to. They recently disabled this. I edited my comment just before you replied.
Thanks for the reply. And would you be comfortable giving out the timers for when the matchmaking loosens up? It gets more loose the longer the queue happens to be. Question 2 Since you will now be placed as high as Gold 1, does this mean you get a smaller raise in MMR and TP each time you win in your qualifying games, and how does this work with the MMR ranges of Gold 1 at maximum ?
Question 3 What is the amount of waiting time the system thinks is high? It's possible that you'd had some off games that day and your MMR had dropped lower than gold IV They just came out of Qualifying and their Variance was high enough to place them with you without a long queue time.
Same for Joust 3v3. Thank you for noticing and taking appropriate actions. Can you tell me how can it happen? Also, how many divisions can I jump at a time? If it matters, my IGN is the same, as Reddit nickname: This is especially infuriating in games like siege and joust. Can we see our MMR? Guru has their own scoring system that is separate from our MMR value.
MMR is still the best indicator of a match quality which is why it is used. I mean if it happens so often that you get this pissed about it I think I'm on to something. I can describe to you in great accuracy how TrueSkill works, show you graphs, the formulae, etc. What would it take for you to accept that maybe, just MAAAYBE the person you are talking about is telling you that you are wrong, not out of ignorance, but out of knowledge, deep and intense, of bayesian ratings systems over more than two decades now?
Larson tweeted about that about a month ago asking everyone for feedback on various S4 things. The votes for a full MMR reset were significantly higher than the other options, but I don't think anything's confirmed one way or another.
I've posted about MM before and it's clearly very complicated. Here is a long, meandering, bit of thoughts I've had in reaction to this updated FAQ - This is a super long comment but level-headed, critical thought about MM is always interesting to me. I may copy this to a post of it's own if enough people seem to find it discussion worthy. How does the system learn from matches and what is the role of variance vs.
For example - two teams are made based on their average MMR. Each team has a different actual average let's say vs but the teams also have a different levels of variance between players let's use range for simplicity - team - range of from min to max, team , range of How much weight does variance actually have in outcome prediction?
In previous seasons, the focus has seemed to be on getting the MMR formula and matchmaking model polished. Maybe season 4 is a good time to tighten up the parameters by reducing the forgiveness related to queue time a little in order to try to make matches with more evenly distributed MMRs.
To further complicate things - the FAQ mentions a variance score for individuals. They describe it as their confidence in the MMR but, over time, this likely turns into "how consistent are you. The actual outcome of the game, including individual performances, is logged. This creates a nice, giant dataset. Basically the pool of existing data completed matches becomes increasingly massive with increasingly well-defined relationships between the predictors of match outcome for simplicity sake, lets say there are 3 major predictors - individual MMR, team MMR, and variance of MMR within the team.
For season 4, weighting the individual predictors in slightly different ways may help improve matchmaking, but all of it is for naught if the basis for all predictions MMR is inaccurate. This brings me to -. I'm assuming the MM wizards at hirez are actually awesome and know exactly what they're doing.
The game has grown over the years and last year there was a "soft reset" of MMR. While this may not have been an issue on PC, I know it seems as if, on console, a number of individuals who played in beta and through season 2 when the player base was smaller and you could qualify above gold have continued to benefit from their previously inflated MMR, undermining the accuracy of the system.
I would love to see hirez wipe MMRs entirely, but that would lead to complete chaos for awhile and I doubt the community has the patience for that. Instead, they could recalculate MMR based on 20 most recent games or games within a certain timeframe and then soft reset everyone toward the mean from there. The MM will be a mess for awhile, but with the years of information built into their models, it should reshuffle into a much cleaner experience over a very short period of time.
Another option - double the number of qualifying games and any game with qualifying players only awards TP to winning team, does not punish losing team. You want to play ranked with your friends but you also want a balanced match. Maybe you only have 3 friends, so you don't quite have a 5 man premade, so does hirez implement a 5 man queue and tell those of us with a smaller smite-group to go to hell? Totally wipe parties and go for the purest of the pure in terms of matchmaking experience? Allow parties of all sizes and we all build shrines in honor of solo queue players who kick ass?
I'm not opposed to hirez cutting the shackles and just letting any size group go into ranked. That, or create two ranked queues - Ranked Solo and Open Ranked but.. Final Thought - what other variables may be of actual help in matchmaking? One I continuously think of is variety of gods played. That creates a huge liability if that god gets banned.
Whether this fits as part of MMR or into matchmaking.. I dont know but it's certainly a "game knowledge" metric similar to of gods mastered These both raise questions regarding their knowledge of other god's abilities bastet mains who pick into an awilix in ranked.. When you go from playing against or with level 4 players, to playing against SPL players, it is not your MMR that is broken, then matchmaking is. Other than better mmr matchmaking id like to see centralized servers in na.
I watched DJ stream with best the other day. And they had a qualifier and another guy with no idea how to build, in ranked. I've had similar experiences but I think it paints a better picture of how bad of a spot matchmaking is in being that they both have insane elo.
Needless to say they lost the game because of it. Just goes to show how someone with no understanding of how conquest is played can lose the game for your team. The only thing I want is longer queue times in ranked. Queue should not be popping after a few minutes just because "it's time" I want good matchmaking, not people that don't know how to play conquest and somehow made it to the ranked queue.
I don't see riotLol having problems with picking a role before Queueing, but ok there's still people that think the pick order is random and most of the time , it's who can type their role Faster in chat See I think that top pick should get the role they want but at the same time a team communicating together to play the roles they are comfortable with is a much better idea.
Having some poor sap forced into playing jungle and then the solo just starts bm'ing how shitty the jungle is. Like this literally has happened to me. I understand jungle meta but it is by far my weakest role. In the last entry we talked about Support Champions and I walked through the ove Fast action platformer built for mobile.
An easy way to break it down would be the following: Things that increase MMR Variance: Lack of data Player has not played many matches in the associated Queue Losing when Matchmaker predicts a win, winning when Matchmaker predicts a loss. Things that decrease MMR Variance: Sufficient data Player has played quite a few matches in the associated Queue Losing when Matchmaker predicts a loss, winning when Matchmaker predicts a win. The max number of TP a player can win or lose is 17 TP. So what does the Matchmaking process look like?
Players enter the queue of their choice. Every few seconds, Matchmaker runs thousands of simulations with various combinations of party members and opponents. Matchmaker looks to build matches where: Teammates have a similar MMR. That gap is similar to the gap the opposing team has. The region is appropriate Matchmaker attempts to ensure teams with parties also face other teams with parties. The longer the Matchmaker goes without finding an ideal matchup, the looser the restrictions become until a match is found.
Matches are made by MMR not Division. The Matchmaker may be confident that player belongs in a higher Division based on their MMR That player may have a high Variance defined above and thus be shuffling around more as the Matchmaker zeroes in on a proper MMR for that player.
After sorting for regional preferences, party status and acceptable time spent in queue, it may simply be the best predicted matchup available for you at that specific time.
Imsges: smite matchmaking faq
Could we please add something in assault that favors players with the God Pack to be put against each other, I'm so sick of fighting the same gods Agni, Kukulkan, etc.
The data is somewhat old now, but probably still relevant. I dont this kinda of system exist.
New skins in clan smite matchmaking faq At least, that's the theory. As long as that type of shit keeps happening, smite matchmaking faq long as the pros have to play with silver and gold players when there are other diamond and masters players in the SAME QUEUE, nothing you ever say means anything about matchmaking honestly. Still, less matchmakking ideal dating factory address can and do occur. All of the "guidelines" the system follows in the FAQ are exactly how it should be, however, there is one major flaw that carlsbad dating a wmite into the whole system.
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