LLAD: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Excess steam was also used to operate a small, shrill whistle to further attract attention. Kuba fetishes, emphasizing only essential organs, are highly schematic. Are you aware that women are actually already in combat? That must be balanced; however, by saying there is no place in Airborne, Ranger, Command, or SF units for anyone that does not pass the required standards to serve with them. They are best known for their fetishes, called butti , which serve in the cult of a wide range of supernatural forces sent by the ancestors, who are not worshiped directly. Here you can see the pause with duration of half two beats and then chord D5 is played four times with duration of eighth half of a beat. The notation for the ghost note is round brackets.
This popcorn is usually cooked in palm oil. During this time, Ife appears to have had widespread importance, and the naturalism of its art seems to have influenced the basic development of Yoruba sculptural style. They can shower with men, eat with men, shit next to a man, sleep in the same quarters, pass the same standards. And I believe that if one person did something, then it is possible for somebody else. If everything goes smooth, lots of steps between now and then, I would expect to be beginning Ranger School summer or fall I am not a Ranger or even in the Army at the moment. One tribal name may refer to a group numbering no more than a few thousand; another may refer to the language spoken in a given area; yet another may describe an empire comprising peoples of distinct historical identities.
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If the exponent of the result is between Float. If the exponent of the result would be larger than Float. When the result is non-NaN, the result has the same sign as f. That documentation contains more detailed, developer-targeted descriptions, with conceptual overviews, definitions of terms, workarounds, and working code examples. Use is subject to license terms. Also see the documentation redistribution policy. Math public final class Math extends Object The class Math contains methods for performing basic numeric operations such as the elementary exponential, logarithm, square root, and trigonometric functions.
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Returns the smaller of two double values. The message came from the Chief of Staff of the Army, and the order seems to have come from echelons above him: Ranger School will admit women within a few months. And the women will pass, whatever it takes. Female officers have complained that the lack of the school credential disadvantages them for promotions and commands, and in an election year their complaints have found champions among the political appointees in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.
Each class in the remainder of FY 13 will receive five to eight women, and the treatment, mentoring, nurturing and ultimate success of those female candidates will be intensively managed by the Chief of Staff and the Sergeant Major of the Army, not to mention civilian appointees.
Even the timing of the feminized classes was established for political reasons: Current Ranger graduates, Ranger veterans, and the Ranger units and Ranger training establishment were never consulted about the decision. Officers who argued against it in Pentagon meetings have already been dismissed or shunted into career-ending punishment assignments. But they will have to justify every dismissal to the highest levels of command, who have made their intention clear.
Regardless of performance, the majority of women attendees must pass — at least as high a graduating percentage as the men in the same class. For the first time in Ranger history, graduation will be guaranteed — for some. That sergeant major, Dennis L.
Smith, just retired in the nick of time. The instructors and cadre have been advised that any public statement is a career ender, and those that have spoken to WeaponsMan.
Right now, the plan is for women officers only, and for them to have as much as a two month train-up prior to the course. The question is, is the purpose of Ranger School to prepare leaders for combat or to provide careerist officers with a shiny ticket-punch? The Chief of Staff has answered the question, and his answer conforms to what appears to be his overall policy: The introduction of women to Airborne School in the s resulted in a massive easing of the challenge to all troopers, with low levels of attrition coming from arbitrary mind-games replacing high levels of attrition from physical failure.
In Ranger School, one possibility is sex-norming various standards, to prevent the credibility damage that the feminized jump school suffered. The command-preferred approach is to lower standards across the board now, before the classes containing the women.
If you relax the standards you put many soldiers lives in jeopardy. I can not see how military official do not see this. I totally agree with you Charles. Women want equality, but they need to step the fuck up and be a soldier, not a play toy in the military.
I have the privlege to training the 1st CST here at Ft Bragg and they were more concerned about hooking up with on of us than doing their jobs, then had the tenacity to complain about a 15 mile ruck with 55lbs. Really, I was carrying lbs and not one could keep up with me. You suggest one standard for both genders, so how about you stop being predisposed towards a certain side in the first place. I pray that they leave the standard intact for RS, so that the first female, who graduates it could shove that tab down all those spiteful throats, those of people that are so insecure and scared of changes.
Your suggestion — that the standard remain the same — seems like one many people on all sides of the argument would welcome. This actually was done for the first three or four classes that women were admitted to in Jump School back in the mists of ancient history ?
Now, past behavior of institutions even more than of people is an imperfect guide to future behavior.
If they hold the current standard, relatively few women who attempt the course will pass. Jump School is your yardstick? Does it take three weeks of yelling and PT that overworks and predisposes candidates to injury to gain the knowledge to manipulate equipment and manage the task? Guess what some people are smart and crafty without a banner on their left sleeve. No- training, re-training, and of course, actual experience does. Put a th medic against an Conventional Army medic and see who is sharper.
Perhaps most th but some conventional 68Ws just might suprise us. Summary- I concur with you—it needs to be sorted out and implemented once they relook with the capability requirement for future ops…and develop a POI to addres the need. There is aplace in the Regiment for women. SO too, in the th. But in the ranks or all who wear tabs, some are better some things than others…I bet there are things a girl can accomplish than a male Ranger just cannot make happen.
Naturally, there will be fewer females on the grad ceremony. And I am tired reading a bunch of grown up men whining on this page. Do yourself a favor, cut the internet. From Russia with love. Funny, all your posts are from the same IP, which geolocates to an American military garrison town.
Now I definitely know that if I am to continue I would just be arguing with a deaf and blind person. You truly made me laugh, sir. Fort Bragg, Andrea Parker name is from Polish origin, last name from a husband origin from Russia proud American citizen now with love. So far there are no females on ranger teams yet. But I assume that you are blaming casualties on us anyways. Sounds about right, Chuck. Besides, I thought we were all here to express our opinion on the subject; however, if you are considering my piece out of line with the language or arguments, I suggest you scroll down to a certain marine comment for contrast.
Julious no airborne school doesnt require all the PT and yelling etc. BUT that yelling and PT puts the trooper under stress so that they know how to cope if lines are tangled, if one looses thier air and the miriade of other problems that can occure during a jump.
You do what your told to the letter or you will die or kill someone else and by the black-hat i. SGT Airborne getting in someones grill about faling to propperly execute a task could savea troopers life.
We have been the elite force in the world and though I am not apposed to women serving outside the FOB or being in a combat arms role I feel that that they should toe the line just like every man. During OEF I had a man wounded and he weighed approx LBS I was able to through him over my sholder after dragging him to cover to get him out of the kill zone. Would a women be able to do the same thing every time? And one more thought why is the first group only female officers???? Is so that their thoughts on the male NCO will carry more weight?
The first standard you should try to meet is spelling followed by grammar. Rangers, I feel for you. The pussification of the famed Rangers has come to the rest of the feminized US Army. God save the Corps because politicians have destroyed the Army. HAHA, I completely agree.. The Army is filled with old narrow-minded dinosaurs who are so insecure the thought of a woman doing anything equal or better than them makes them shudder..
Russian women and American women are two entirely different animals. Little Russian girls have more intestinal fortitude than most American men I know. Nikkita, just bc you have been attached to a Alpha detachment does NOT mean you were out on the front lines doing the job of a common infantryman. Ranger School is a elite school designed to pushed the human body to extremes while also having to make sound decisions with the lives of your men hanging in the balance.
Feminists continue to try to make the remark that this woman or that woman is stronger than most men but should we make a rule based on the exception? Because you know four women who you THINK could pass we should allow all the headaches women bring to the operation?
Out there there is NO privacy. You sleep three men to a sleeping bag just to stay warm for the hour you get to sleep. When you come out of the field you have 10 min to shower. The installations are not set up to have separate bathrooms in Darby, mountains, or at swamp phase so there will have to be buildings constructed for them.
They will have to hurry and push women through so they can get the first female RI in each phase bc as soon as one of the females claim sexism no matter what the case is they will win bc of fear from higher. Women should not go to RS. The day the first female makes it through us the day I stop wearing that tab. Just bc you have supported with SF doe not mean you are SF. Your exactly correct, Nikita. Women do get unfairly blamed concerning the military.
It the fault of whatever kneepad-wearing, paper-pushing, never-done-anything-on-deplopyment officer who is looking at a promotion and wants to please. They should in fact let women in, so that when those worthless loser males quit, they can feel like even bigger pieces of shit. And then the women will fail in a week or two. I have no problem with women going to Ranger school.
Women are equal in every way to men as far as combat is concerned and should be afforded every opportunity to prove it. However, while we are at it, I believe the NFL needs to open its ranks to women.
Not a separate league, but the actual NFL. Every team should be forced to play at least 2 women on every down. That should be interesting as far as game strategy is concerned.
Again, not women against women, but women against men. Just keep the weight classes. A pound female should do just fine against a pound male in the UFC. Looking forward to the changes.
However, once they start putting women through this course, please forgive me if I forget to wear my tab. I am not sexist at all. Remember, diversity is more important than unity, and careers are more important than actually being effective. No one is spitting in womens faces, the men that fear these changes will be the ones that have met the standards and are currently serving in combat roles over seas.
Lowering the standards and allowing any old body to walk on to an elite team will put the whole team at risk. This isnt about high school testing, its about physical training designed to replicate the physical demands of the job.
My point being, man or woman, you have to earn a spot on the team. I am willing to bet many will leave our special ops community due to this EO publicity stunt. In Panama we jumped with! I like to see the women do that. I guess everything gets dumbed down. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for you to openly admit on an open source that you are a CST Instructor and that this is what women going through CST Selection are about is pretty unprofessional.
One team, one fight? Very professional manner to lead everyone to believe that this is what women in the Army are about. You are obviously so competent that you are an series Soldier that was selected to facilitate CST Selection. So compentent that you actually ran a spellcheck prior to posting your ridiculous blog. Good luck with the rest of your SWCS tour. Definition of Socialism no communism everybody passes, or at least passing is not a direct relation to performance.
Way to go, Liberals…you just took another gigantic chip out of what once made America strong. I am a woman. I graduated from a military school where the fitness test was not gender-normed. Obviously, it was harder for us than our male counterparts but the pride we experienced was welcomed by being able to hold our own alongside them.
It is a shame that women would ask for that — a lowering of standards. The institutional Army is asking for it. If a physical test were administered equally, fewer women than men would pass the difference between the standards for men and women in the APFT, as in pro and Olympic sports where you see true elite athletes, is very large. The Army ended racial discrimination — slowly and reluctantly, if one reads the history — but did it by requiring racial minorities to meet the same standards as the majority.
Nobody ever questions whether the guys standing in Regimental First Formation at the end of an SFQC class met the standard based on other characteristics. But this initiative is oriented towards results, and perhaps the command fears that a standard that only a few women can meet would look like discrimination this loopy idea actually has a basis in case law.
I hope you understand by now that females are not asking to lower the standard. Hognose explained it quite well in my opinion. As for the ranger units and necessity to join those after graduating the school, well, it is not necessary. I have seen enough people with a ranger tab, who went to the school to get a good training and promotion points out of it. And soldiers tend to be females. My supply NCO did get it, not that he is using it at all.
Being a graduate I understand that not all people who go to it are infantry and may be a different MOS, but the fact is that it is a course designed to push the human body to its limits. Spending multiple weeks out in the field, conducting 15k movements every day then conducting an ambush or raid, then moving another k to get to your patrol base, clean guns, eat, and the sleep for hopefully more than 1 hour.
All this every day spent in the field, no showers, no privacy, no toilets. This is a course built around the rigors of actual combat and designed so that soldiers who have or even have not been to actual combat can hone their skills so they can lead their men in any enviroment.
Now lets talk about an actual land-based war. Were there to be a large scale war in the near future everyone who is in the Army with a ranger tab is going to be in demand. The question is, from here are women expecting to be going into the 11B mos? Which means they are going to have to be able to kill. Now replace my buddy with a woman. Every man has a tendency to want to protect women in danger, so now instead of doing the rational thing I may be conducting myself in a way that would get myself or others killed in order to save her life.
I hope you can understand, Im not downplaying the role of the females in the military, I completely understand how crucial they are to it.
But Ranger school is a school centered around men. If the average woman in the military went to ranger school as it is today, she would fail. The only thing that they could do to fix this is rig the course and ensure thaat women pass, which is exactly what they are already planning to do.
There has never been fairness to females in the military. They have always had things made easier for them so that they can pass. Bob, you might not be aware of those jobs, but there are MOSs in the army, where personnel is operating in tactical groups. Those could be separate entities, could be also attached to SOF and rangers, etc. Women along with men are in charge of this groups. Men are better killers, fine, but guns shoot for us just as well. RS is considered elite, because many guys cannot pass it.
I heard the stories from it and description of the course from my friends fresh from the RS, and I saw them 62 days later and 30 pounds lighter. But there are some women that are able to do just as much. Considering how many women there are in the army, how many of them are taking this job seriously and how many of them you can see in the gym on a regular basis, I suppose there would be one or two graduates to every cycle at most, depending on the number of participants.
Again, not so many people would want to even try. I asked all my female friends and only one of them was OK with the idea. Just like an Airborne, not all people like to jump from a perfectly good airplane.
Just like there even with lowered standards there are female and male dropouts. Again, I am not fighting for every female in the army to attend the RS.
But those who can, they should get the opportunity. I also hear you, when you are touching the subject of pregnant girls going through training, and I ensure you that this is an issue only in the regular army. All special schools put the training of a soldier to a hold. Santorum about females in combat. Fear of death will level that gentlemen impulse to the grounds of common sense, that is my argument back. Thank you for your opinion, by the way. Your piece was argumentative, but not spiteful.
Israel put women into comba alonside men in the Arab-Israeli war and the results were completely disastrous. The study revealed that men tried to protect and assist women rather than continue their attack.
As a result, they not only put their own lives in greater danger, but also jeopardized the survival of the entire unit. The study further revealed that unit morale was damaged when men saw women killed and maimed on the battlefield. So there is data to support the idea that men act differently in combat when around women.
Israel already tried this and failed, I do not see why the U. Not that women do not belong in the military, they do, but not in combat roles. The cost in terms of mission completion, and the lives of both female and male soldiers is too great. This is a PR stunt and its going to make consequences.
O here are my sources. Also thought I would add this little nugget on women in the IDF as well. Females dont need to ask for the standard to be lowered. Heres an example of the current APFT standards for the age group. If a female barely passes the run then there is no way she will last for double the distance at a faster overall pace. I do not think that women are weaker or inferior. The standards for knowledge and performace should be the exact same reguardless of gender.
So, with that being said. Sure, let women go to ranger school but dont change a damn thing. They can shower with men, eat with men, shit next to a man, sleep in the same quarters, pass the same standards. I dont think a single man wearing a ranger tab right now would have a problem with that.
I agree with your first statement but you will have a hard time proving the second. Whose lives are in jeapordy if too many people have a Ranger Tab? The new sytem simply devalues the Tab, nothing more. I agree that the standards should not change!!! What if the NBA were forced to allow women to play, and not only play but they had to have the same shooting percentages as the men.
Would the game be as aggressive and fast paced. Or would the play have to be slowed down to accommodate for the women that cannot keep pace. The ultimate issue is that the United States Military is not society. It is not a work place that should succumb to what the rest of America defines as normal and fair.
We kill the enemies of our country. We can not allow our military to be slowed and weakened because society doesnt think we are fair. This hinders not just the individuals performance, but the performance of the team. I graduated RS in Feb. Oh, and what about going potty?
We often had to piss in our wet cammies. But I guess there will be in Anyway, what a travesty. Of those who recycle, what is their failure rate? But I wish them luck. The vast majority of recycles just re-do one phase and go on to graduate. Army culture believes that the soldier can always be trained to the standard, so if the soldier fails he is retrained and retested until he passes. Another ticket out of the course is any kind of integrity violation. I have known soldiers who recycled more than three times, meaning they averaged more than one per phase.
For a while there was a fourth phase, Desert Phase, but it was dropped after a few years… it was very expensive and added a week to the course. When they dropped it, they kept three days. When I attended, soldiers in any phase could be made to recycle just that phase or the whole course. You could finish Florida and the board could decide you needed to begin at what was then called City Week at the Harmony Church area of Fort Benning.
As a recycle of every phase I would say that recycling has no effect on your shot of failing out statically. Recycles have the advantage of knowing what to expect, but also the disadvantage of failing out if they No-Go for the same reason as before. I saw from personal experience that the same percentage of 1st timers pass that particular phase as recycles. But then again I was so tired I might be totally wrong. OK, so you only get one shot per phase at Recycle?
I believe a friend of mine got three shots at mountain phase but in between 2 and 3 he had to learn to walk on three toes on one foot. He wanted it pretty bad. You too must have wanted it very much. Me,my prayer in Florida was: Well, the average Russkiy tank loader is about half the size and strength of one of our buzzcut West Point women-in-sensible-shoes.
Which is why the Russians replaced him with automation sometime around Our rifles have been loading themselves since , but Armor has never been able to figure out how to put machinery in a tank, I guess.
Russia had Lysenko, we have Odierno. There is no sexual dimorphism in homo sapiens! The stupid waxes even stronger as they hunt the leaks. The Russians can have that automated shit. They are too slow — even an old M60A1 could put the second round downrange while the T was still trying to reload after the first round.
I know — I tested the entire man-machine interface on all of my crews, time and time again. All of which was another 1 or 2 seconds earlier than that poor Russian Gunner was ready to launch another round in our direction.
Lots of Iraqi tankers learned that the hard way. The problem with learning the hard way as a tanker is that by the time the error of your ways is clear to you, it;s two thousand degrees C inside the tank. There are already programs that include women for direct action operations.
These women will not want the standards lowered for them and they will rise to the occasion. Its going out and seeking a gun fight, hunting fuckers and accepting your fate. If that bitch wants to make the cut there should not be an agenda but the same grading sheet the last 60 years received. You completely invalidated any comment you made about the raw seriousness of war when you started your rant about tampons and elicited whatever other foul comment you did.
I have 3 daughters. One of the Army girls was a gymnast in HS and college, and the other was a soccer player and X-country runner. What they could not do, was carry my ruck or — even worse — carry me very far.
They were simply not big enough. Now I know very well that there are some very big females out there. I would not have wanted to get on the court with them.
The most number of pull-ups I ever managed was 23 at age This is a true Marine grunt response. According to your story here you are not doing such a great job either. Most of women, unless they are 5f3in are at least by the way. Just a thing to consider. It makes zero sense. I almost cried reading your description of the combat, by the way.
Although, with that vocab and set of mind, I even doubt you are in a relationship. One comment after reading this page. Everyone has, for the most part, reasonable arguments. Your comments are doing nothing more than hurting your own argument, because you are proving a female stereo type that all you do is create cat-fights.
Every single reply you have involves trying to make the other guy look like an idiot and yourself like super woman. Go complete ranger school with the standards of the men and STFU. Now, please confirm my argument by replying with some witty yet distasteful reply.
As for the main point of the discussion here, I only want women, who decide that they want it, to have the same opportunities and the same treatment as men: I am strongly against the changes of standards, because I am sure that some women will be able to pass the school without lowering the requirements. So many men are trying to stress here that physical strength is the most important virtue to have to pass the RS.
I have an example at work that proves them wrong. The person I know has passed RS along with many other mentally and physically tough army schools. To my knowledge, he was not recycled even once. However, very often most of us fail to succeed because of the weakness of our minds, not muscles. I want women to be able to go to the RS and do the best that they can, and if it will not be good enough, I want instructors to fail them just like anybody else.
Finally, if you think that my comments contain personal attacks its because I was taught to hit back when someone slaps me in the face, and so many people here are doing just that, but with words.
Which is exactly why his comment is completely appropriate. The affects of political policy are exactly what this discussion elaborates upon. In a sense, political agendas from higher dictating policy for what purpose? Whatever the outcome of this scenario, the military should never lose sight that its primary mission, granted through valiant service via soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, is to support and defend the constitution of the united states…national interests, preserve peace loving society.
The question I ask, is does this policy support this mission or undermine it. The lack of understanding pertaining to highers intent may allow someone to say it does not. Such as the marine. I assume there is careerism involved, perhaps the ranger tabbed female 11a may rise to be the next 4 star who could have the potential to induce world peace, thus ultimately saving millions.
The military is obviously male dominated and certain feminists would argue masculinity or maleness directly contributes to the innateness of war. Perhaps, but nature has set its course and RS now is the ever shifting battleground. Is the military not fair in this regard. But this is also the point and that of the marine. War is not fair and it is also our duty as a nation to produce a product capable of successfully encontering, overcoming such challenges. This is poignant especially when lives are at stake which brings me back to the utterly appropriateness of the inappropriate terminology utilized by the marines.
Ultimately, this forum is what gives our country credibility and our ability to overcome. Either way, the soldier will overcome. A long time ago I was a low speed high drag infantry soldier, I knew some guys who earned their tab, and this is as wrong as it gets.
I went through class , and it took me months to stop waking up in the middle of the night thinking I was still in it. You know what one of the funniest memories of ranger school was? Trying to listen to a patrol order inside the patrol base, while watching feces ejecting from some guy who is taking a dump 10 feet from you.. Oh well, I am sure nothing will change when its a woman. When you have a squad leader position, if someone is sleeping on the line instead of pulling security, you just failed a leadership position.
Somehow if it was a female sleeping, and I kicked her in the ribs, I think there would be repercussions. But hey, we swore to defend against all enemies, and the domestic enemies are all too aware of this. Society may now be a zoo, but you still got to worry about the military. And by military I mean the guys actually doing the killing, not the pregnant females wearing their tennis shoes down at the motor pool.
Anyone who is ready to go through the hell that ranger school was is a person who can accomplish pretty much anything they put their mind to, like maybe taking their enlistment oath seriously. I still remember to this day! You are right about waking up in the middle of the night months later, that and getting the numbness out of my fingers weeks later.
Sadly though I think allowing women in for the reasons they seem to be claiming would go against the logic of keeping the standards the same. All that aside the politicians that are driving this can make or break the RTB, the perception of those that wear the tab, the validity of what the tab means to the individual and the unit. The Army has NOT made any decision yet. They have decided to do a study.
Check your facts before getting everyone worked up over an issue that may not even be one. Where do YOU get your information from? Oh, the Washington Post. Why yes, they were. Why, yes, they were. Our facts come from: And the facts are still coming in. We can pretty much guarantee that the sources this blog blog has in the Ranger and SF world are better than the sources anyone at the Post has — including Tom Ricks.
The guy does have the best military Rolodex among Washington reporters. Rowan Scarborough is probably 2 and Eli Lake is up there also.
In our world, that of the military, a study is a foregone conclusion. Remember the stories of the miltiary doing studies on studies? The fact that you believe the tab equates to simply stars for female officers shows you seem to not understand the full picture. Change in the army comes from the top leadership positions. The top leadership positions have always been combat arms men and most often those with tabs.
Changes in the army lead to positive progress, better opportunities for any branch, personality, gender, race, among other things. Allow me to submit to your august instruction. Contrary to the opinion of many of its inmates, the Army is not about their careers or about achieving nebulous social milestones that will look good when some GEN takes a victory lap on The View. Lord Love a Duck.
Actually, there is one other really big reason that GEN O decided to labor mightily and bring forth this gem of an idea right now. In college journalism class, one of the ethical points the prof made was that you always lead with your ID and affiliation. I have been waiting to go to school for 7 years. Seven I finally get my chance and I hear this crap. This sex norming for women in the army is fucking bullshit!
At no point in time is a woman going to be held to the same fricken standard as a man. And the fact that our higher ups make us pass them even more bs. I am loosing faith. Not capable of meeting the same standard? Ranger school is elite and prestigious because it has tough standards. Lowering the standards for Ranger school goes hand-in-hand with lowering the prestige of the Ranger tab.
Back in the day, they stopped counting reps once you hit There are some very impressive women at crossfit workouts. A male PT max is adequate prep for Ranger school more is naturally better.
An EIB-standard march is too short, far too light, and too slow. Jodark, you must be kidding me. Some of the argument here are quite ridiculous and I regret to say that yours falls in that category. The fact of the matter is grading at RTB is way harder than big army, and both times that I went yes, I double failed Darby and fought for a year to go back and finish what I started I watched countless dudes fail push ups, all of them swearing they max the APFT.
Bottom line, no one knows standards like Ranger School. Please come on I carried a lb rucksack for 3 days in school up and down on mountain phase.
Keep your chest pounding down and stick to facts people. The point is that there are both women AND men who do not meet the physical requirements to pass Ranger school. A female Olympic athlete is stronger than a top Ranger school graduate — therefore there are women that can meet and surpass the physical requirements. Not many women train in such a way because it is not required of them — same as men.
However, once trained properly it is entirely possible for almost any person to surpass these standards. I made the proposal to have a sports-medicine doc consult for my group when I was on active duty and the group commander made fun of the idea. Since then, sports medicine has taken its place in SOF.
But yes, if they set a single bar up, no matter where they set it some men and some women will pass and some will fail. The problem is that if they set a single bar, the impact on men and women will be disparate which is why MLB eagerly adopted racial minorities, but no woman has yet had anything to bring to a ball — no pun intended — club. A 45lb rucksack is what a fighting load and body armor weigh in an Infantry unit. At no time in my 10 years of service did my field or mission ruck weigh less than 50lbs, and that was a summer packing list with more of an administrative force posture.
Then conduct break-contact drills with that ruck in the thick of the woods, and tell me a woman can do this, month after month, year after year? I have a word for you: I have another concept, which is what this is really about: They will self-select themselves as unifit, by nature of the job.
They brought in a female MP 2nd Lt. This was nothing even close to combat conditions-no gear, no weapons, no rucksack…just ceremonial belts and white gloves.
As such, they were banned from doing funerals in Arlington indefinitely. I have been out for several years as a cake-eating civilian. I routinely ruck an 11 mile loop on the Appalachian Trail in Southwest Virginia for an exercise routine. Be warned though, this iinvolves significant elevation gain and loss. These are mountains and not bumps.
Soon the Boy Scouts until the do gooders mess them up will be a larger greater fighting force than the US Army… but we will be happy in our socialist utopia. I served in the 75th and was a RI at 4th. Women have no business going to Ranger school. If you are a woman and disagree go fuck yourself and make me a sammich. Bubba, if your an example of what has passed then I doubt they would be lowering their standards by much. If a female wants to go to Ranger school then she should expect to receive the same treatment as the guys.
Boot in chest included. Women want to walk around talking about how tough they are cause they can go through child birth, then its time they put on their big boy boots and step up and meet the standards.
Not the lowered ones but the same ones men have been facing for 60 years. I appreciate and thank every soldier for stepping up and defending our country. If Bubba was with 75th, then not only did he have to pass the course, but was in a Ranger Unit.
He was not only a U. S Army Ranger, but an Airborne Ranger, in Ranger Battallion, the type of people that regular soldiers sing cadences about. He was selected as an RI on top of that. His service, fidelity, bravery, or valor is not to be questioned, by anyone.
I am a Veteran of the U. I was married to one for over 20 years. Thanks for serving and for commenting. But yes, there are physiological and innate behavioral differences that some people seem to be in deepest denial about.
Simple sexual dimorphism is one: Women officers, particularly career-first, mission-later, troops-whodat Academy grads, are the ones who see this as a benefit and are willing to degrade the school to get the shiny. I believe that things did change greatly. For the good, for the bad, but they did. These days we believe that we belong anywhere we want to belong to.
My opinion is; it should NOT by any means. All Ranger students will have a Ranger haircut prior to arrival on Zero Day. A Ranger haircut is defined as: There is no requirement to shave your head with a razor. The double standard starts here, at sign-in, but it will permeate the whole course.
To you and all vets, regardless of how long that last chromosome is, or what the service assigned you to do: I am an enlisted personnel. I want it happen. I believe this should and will happen. And I believe that if one person did something, then it is possible for somebody else. If two people did it, then it is even more possible. If so many men have passed RS for the past 60 years, then some females will do too.
It is all a matter of training. When I got in the army I ran 2 miles in 17 min. I never ran before. Now I can do it in Training and knowing what you want to become. I respect your point of view, but you should never say never. I used the run time as an overall example of the human ability to progress. If you are to try, you shall maybe succeed in the ability to express your opinion rather than emotions. Perfectly Equal treatment then I know I myself would be ashamed and appalled.
Not only is it not fair to the men that have proven themselves worth of the title of Ranger but also, females would you really want to be the dumb bitch whose slack everyone carries? Why even have school and training if you are just going to give it to them? If they want the Tab and Beret, they should earn it like everyone else. My daughter is a Soldier. Mechanic, strapping lass who can break track, sling batteries, and wields a mean breaker bar. You and [her brother] can have that Infantry nonsense.
She was an early recipient of the Koran burning anger. That will sort all this out very quickly: I never met one female soldier who had any fantasies about doing infantry work. They thought we were all crazy, and wanted nothing to do with a profession that involved lack of showers, carrying heavy rucksacks, conducting actions on the objective, and sleeping in the mud.
Heck, female soldiers dreaded going to the field, which included sleeping in GP Mediums, having out-houses, mermites, hot meals, pogue bait, and starched uniforms around the TOC. I never once slept in a formal shelter on any field exercise, or mission, and when I did have solid overhead cover, it was because my team had dug a hide into the ground for an extended-duration static surveillance mission.
All other times were under my beloved poncho hooch, if the tactical situation allowed it. More often than not, I was laying in the freaking mud behind my rucksack, facing out and pulling security, checking my watch, waiting to pass off security duty to one of my brothers.
Oh yeah, there are chiggers and ticks galore, that love dark, warm places…nevermind the mosquitos. I have nothing against women going to ranger school but I agree with everyone that there should be one standard. This is why 1 standard is important. Because if it waivers it WILL cost lives.
Ranger School has nothing to do, directly, with admittence to any Special Operations Force. Yes, to become a leader in one of the Batts you have to complete the course.
There are a few females serving as leaders of tactical teams as well. Bottom line, out of shape. So they simply sent him to a fat camp, no bitching no hard feelings. It is well known that women play a role in support for SOF.
I was not very clear on some parts of mine; however, I was just trying to tell Nate about the SOF community and women in general terms. Okay, I am compelled to step in here to provide the other side of your statements to round out the picture.
Yes, women are attached to SF and Ranger units. Many women are on the objective doing interrogations, intelligence work, translating, etc. Yes, women attached to SF and Ranger units do find themselves in leadership roles. They lead the elements of their parent unit intelligence, MP, etc. You use these examples to qualify women as being capable of being in SOF missions.
I have no issue with that. Women have performed invaluable services to ensure that SOF mission are successfully carried out. Women and males in support units play important roles in SOF missions and have done great things. My issue, however, is the fact that you are disregarding context to further a point. Again, this is not to diminish their service. Hell, women shoot better than most men anyway. This kind of pantywaist nonsense is why I pulled myself off the line after 5 tours.
Good luck high speeds. Voting with my feet. It is a fact that the female body in order to maintain the level required must have optimum sleep and nutrition and does not possess the density required for a sustained period of time lacking those things. There are also the hygienic requirements. In the Ranger Batts, light units and 82nd the musculoskeletal injuries sustained by the female soldiers are exacerbated by the pounding, particularly with the hips and lower back.
This is not an issue of discrimination or gender bias. Is this a prank? How in the world does this even make any sense? Give me a break. If this really happens, this will be much worse than when the smart guys took away our black berets just so they could dump the idea a few years down the road.
Yeah, great idea…REMF dickheads. I got KIA Ranger buddies turning in their graves right now. Go balance the budget, go to dinners, drive your fancy cars and do your back door deals with CEOs of fortune companies…. These turds need to stop watching GI Jane and quit bumpin their gums about nonsense.
I think I can say, unequivocally, my grand father is rolling over in his grave right now. One of my exes had two great uncles who served in the Marauders. They were pretty well known because they were the only twins in the unit. Alas, they have since passed away like most of our WWII heroes, but they both lived long after the war and had good and full lives.
Yes, the same with my gran father passed away in Brutal times and conditions. Why not start a separate leadership course? Since when do women fight in combat arms units?
Why waste time and money training women small unit tactics and patrolling? Are they now in turn joining our Special Operations Units on missions? All I hear is budget cuts this and budget cuts that. Lets save these slots for guys that are going to use it on the battle field! Whats the average cost per soldier attending Ranger school?
Glad this old door kicker got out and went private! Sorry for you Ranger Buddies! There should be one standard. I am not a Ranger or even in the Army at the moment. I have to sort out a legal mess before I can swear back in. I have always held Rangers in the highest regard because there are no mediocre Rangers, they are the best of the best. Political correctness cant protect this country from our enemies. If the idiots in the suits do not change the standards, or make it easier for women to accomplish the Ranger School standards, no woman will every graduate from RANGER School; it is too tough; IF and if is a big word the standards are kept the same.
Ranger School is designed to teach a soldier how to deal with the peers and subordinates to accomplish tasks in a combat setting. Your physical and mental prowess is tested to the point of breaking.
I graduated class , which included the extra week for the desert phase in White Sands, New Mexico. It would be a mockery to afford the opportunity to women to participate in the time honored tradition of Ranger School. It is not just a tradition that everyone can accomplish.
It takes every fiber of your being and just raw brute strength to complete the standards and afford them the opportunity to earn and wear the Black and Gold Ranger Tab. This is not G. Just the rucksack alone is approximately 50 plus pounds, not to mention all combat gear that is carried by each Ranger candidate. If that standard is modified it is not completing the school to its standard as written.
When we parachuted into Grenada my rucksack weighed pounds, I want to see any female jump that, let along hump it in the jungles of Panama, Central America, not panama city beach in a bikini.
We have an army to promote peace, but the training is preparation for war. Sometimes it is another country and sometimes it is to fight a demonstration right here in the United States that gets out of hand. Well they need to get their hands out of their pants and quit playing with themselves and smell the burnt coffee. Mark my word they are flirting with disaster and upsetting the very fabric of our military, starting with the Army and Ranger School.
I want to see any female just get a mission ruck from the chute shed across the tarmac, onto the bird. That is one of the most dificult individual tasks I ever did regulalry, comparing to some of the events during SFAS.
When I was in Airborne School, we has this cute little hispanic female who was the number one jumper in her stick, 1st bird on the pass after my flight. We were worried that the next flight was going to mid-air her.
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It is in the villages of this southern region that the most highly developed political, social, and artistic culture has evolved.
They were pretty well known because they were the only twins in the unit. The more numerous Mossi people of Burkina Faso were organized by equestrian invaders in the 15th and 16th centuries. Oxford University Press, pp.
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